The One Problem Interview: Hillary Sobel, Lawyer

In this Episode of The One Problem, my guest Hillary Sobel talks about respect for women in the workplace.

Hi, my name is Avil Beckford, and this is the latest episode of The One Problem. I invite my guests to come and talk about one problem, not all the problems in the world, just one. Who wants to get overwhelmed? So they have five to eight minutes to present their solution. My very special guest today is Hillary Sobel, and she is another Ellevate Network member. I'm very passionate about Ellevate, and I've known her for over a year now.

So Hillary is a lawyer and has been a lawyer for a few decades, three decades, and she believes in all things fairness, inside and outside of the law. Over to you, Hillary.

Hillary Sobel

Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited about this. One of the big problems that I believe passionately in trying to resolve is about respect for women in the workplace. I have seen that over the years, women and people who identify as women, have fought so hard to make it in the workplace, whether it's in the law where I practice or elsewhere. There's this sense that they've made it, and they're happy to be here, and then there is this sense of not belonging or not being respected, and that is very frustrating to me.

When I was growing up, I was always the only girl in a group of guys, and I never liked being told that because I was a girl I couldn't do something. And I find that in the workplace, despite the great explosion of women, and people who identify as being women, working as they had not in decades past, that they're still not fully accepted for who they are and what they bring. I think it's important as leaders that we model how to encourage all women and all people who identify as women to be respected and to be heard.

Podcast Interview With Hillary Sobel Talking About Respect for Women in the Workplace

And so one of the things that I try to do to encourage that is to stand side by side. To ensure that people are quite literally heard in a meeting, turning to somebody and saying, what do you think? Because the overwhelming impression that I see, particularly in the legal arena, is that people who identify as women have still been relegated to the back seat. They are still not the power players. And they have to be recognized as that.

Hillary Sobel

And I think one of the ways to address this is for women to stand together. Before a meeting, make sure that we all talk and say, I'm going to support you. I'm going to make sure you are heard so that when there are only a few in the room, but you are overwhelmed by people who identify as male, that your voice is literally not heard when someone, and this happens to me far too frequently, I will make a comment. I will be the only woman in the room still and nobody will say a thing.

And then a few minutes later, a man says the exact same thing and suddenly it's brilliant. Well, I will stand up and I will say, Oh, I'm so glad you agree with me. It's not an easy thing to do if you don't have that confidence. And so the way to build that is in solidarity, in rooms. It's also as a leader to be mindful that you don't do those same things, that you don't ignore someone when they are speaking and go by default to someone who appears to have more experience.

Have you read or watched?

1. The One Problem: Janet Zaretsky, BS Brilliance Master
2. The One Problem: Julie Foucht, Art of Feminine Marketing
3. The One Problem: Evelyn Jerome Alexander, Magellan College Counseling
4. The One Problem Interview with Rosalin Krieger, The Unstucker
5. The One Problem Interview: Tetyana Dudnyk, Director, Technology Project Management Office
6. The One Problem Interview: Maura Lustig, Transformational Coach
7. The One Problem: Vicki Saunders, Founder SheEO
8. Episode 17 The One Problem: Tara Hunt, Founder Truly Inc
9. The One Problem Interview: Melanie Russell Talks About Partnership Agreements
10. The One Problem Interview: Anthea Rossouw, Founder of Dreamcatcher
11. Germain St. Denis, Consultant, Change Leadership: The One Problem Interview
12. The One Problem Interview: Sandra Lisi, Leadership Coach
13. The One Problem: Deena Baikowitz, Business & Career Coach
14. The One Problem: Kelli Wingo, The One Problem Interview: Kelli Wingo, KMW Catalyst
15. The One Problem: Patricia Roberts,Chief Operating Officer of the Gift of College
16. The One Problem: The One Problem: Patti Pokorchak, Small Biz Sales Coach
17. The One Problem: Adrienne Harris, Managing Partner, Portage Sales
18. The One Problem: Kristy Wallace, CEO Ellevate Network
19. The One Problem: Margye Solomon Talks about Aging and Relevance
20. The One Problem: Deb Boulanger, Launch Lab for Women Entrepreneurs
21. The One Problem: Sharon Horne Ellstrom – Stop Being Like Others, Be YOU
22. The One Problem: Liz Kitchell from SheMoolah Talks Money Conversations
23. The One Problem: Avil Beckford, Author of Digest 30 Books in 30 Days
24. The One Problem: Interview With Kelly Daring, Author of Is Love Enough

One of the beauties of where we're at now with inter-generational workplaces is that people from different generations, younger women, older women, older men, we all have different ways of approaching a problem. And so if you don't listen, you don't learn. The other thing I would say is, we need to learn not to be afraid of the word ‘no'. When we're children, it's one of the words we learn early on, and learn it's power, no has a lot of power.

You don't have to always say no, but what you are saying you may say no. So when someone treats you as though you are unimportant. You are the person who is going because you're a woman by default, you are going to take notes of the meeting. You know, there are ways of saying, well, I think we should all be doing that because we all hear different things. We want to make sure that we all capture our own impressions. I can remember one time I was taking the deposition of an expert witness and I was there with a senior partner who was female and my adversaries were male and the witness was male.

And the senior partner on the other side said, Hill, can you get the witness a cup of coffee? And I just looked at him and said, “you have legs, they work, you can get him a cup of coffee. He's your witness.” And the witness was taken aback. The lawyers were all taken aback. And, you know, the guy went and got his coffee. But it takes practice to get that confident and saying no and learning to stand up for yourself and for others is a muscle.

Hillary Sobel

The more you use it, the easier it becomes. And oftentimes it's easier to stand up for someone else than for yourself. So the more you do that for someone else, and you see the benefits of it, it will give you more confidence to stand up for yourself. It's something I am so passionate about. I see it happen to women all the time. In addition to standing up for them, I will also invite them into my office. And sit and talk to them and ask them why are you concerned?

There has to be a recognition that we don't always all stand up because we've made it to the room where we want to be. And there are other issues we need to confront and other things we need to protect. And there's a fear of retaliation or not getting the next assignment or not being invited to the client meeting. And I understand that. I come from a very privileged space, not just because of my race and my education, but I don't have certain responsibilities that will impact my ability to say, no, I don't have to worry about a mortgage.

And I don't have to raise children. I don't have to worry about a spouse. While I have other obligations, these are huge things that identify how we react to things that happened to us in our workplaces, and I understand that, and I'm not foolish enough to say that everyone should risk everything they have to stand up for themselves. You've got  to balance that. But I think it's important that we all work towards recognizing that respect in the workplace is paramount and we start with each other one on one and in the rooms that we're in. And hopefully we bring that to a broader reach in our organizations.

So that's the problem. That's my approach on how we take the first steps to solving it.

Avil Beckford

Thank you so much, Hillary, you made me think, and I know that you're going to give my listeners a lot to think about.

Hillary Sobel

Thank you, Avil. Thank you again for having me and giving me this opportunity to talk about something that matters so very much to me and has throughout my career and my life.